Scooters

[serge]

Hey All,

So who has scooters? I know there are a few of us, and when the water isn't so cold we tend to scooter as much as possible?

It's always good to know more people with scooters, the worste part about having a scooter is if your buddies don't :)

If you are thinking about a scooter post here to. That way we can try and answer any questions as well as apply some peer pressure to convince you it's a good time to get a scooter... :D

Scooters can be very pricey especially if you buy new. There are some great deals to be had on use scooters though so a scooter may not be that far out of reach :)

Serge.

[Joe]

I want one... I heard they're good for your trim. :D

[Jay Roy]

I want one... I heard they're good for your trim. :D

They make awesome BCD's as well....

[jmya]

O.K., how do I get a great deal on a used scooter? I'm looking for a 26 Ah Gavin, but am willing to reconsider if the price is right.

I want to be scooter equipped by April, or thereabouts.

[Chantelle]

Keep your eyes peeled on the various forums. Sometimes you come up lucky!

[Joe]

O.K., how do I get a great deal on a used scooter? I'm looking for a 26 Ah Gavin, but am willing to reconsider if the price is right.

I want to be scooter equipped by April, or thereabouts.

Marc Singer has one forsale right now. Your choice of a Magnum, 26 or 18 body $2800.00. Give EE a call or go onto the Deco Stop and pm him.

[jmya]

Thanks Joe.

I've sent Marc a PM - we'll see what happens.

[Joe]

Thanks Joe.

I've sent Marc a PM - we'll see what happens.

No problem. He was selling three magnums late last year. He should have something left forsale. Plus you'll have a famous WKPP scoot. :cool:

[jmya]

Yes, a famous WKPP scooter relegated to doing weenie dives!

[Jean f]

yes but there the most fun weeine dives you will ever have

[Oren]

Yes, a famous WKPP scooter relegated to doing weenie dives!
It's called retirement. ;)

[Chantelle]

Puttin' the horse out to pasture.. :o

[Matthew Mandziuk]

The great thing about scooters is that they can add a new dimension to your diving.

It doesn't matter if you're a newbie diving without a tech cert or the most experienced cave explorer, a scooter is a perfect tool for any dive.

I love the fact that UTD is offering programs like scubatics and bringing scooters into the mainstream tech programs.

I dive a Hollis scooter, simply because it's perfectly neutral and well....Jean can tell you that it destroys his for speed....I believe a 78 min scooter dive in Sherkston his was toast and mine had another :30 of burn time at 75% speed, but we don't wan to pick on poor "Brusso".

Matt
xoxo

[Chantelle]

GUE is about to launch a DPV course as well, which should be interesting. There has been a DPV workshop in Mexico, for multiple stage (Cave 2 divers) and multiple DPV usage in a cave. A friend if mine took it a couple of years ago. It's amazing to see pictures from a cave that has hardly been dived! The decorations were incredible.

[jmya]

Well, I've just got a reply from Marc. He has five for sale, and the price is right! He is away on travel until Feb 1, so I have to wait a week to see the pictures. They have been "tested" and have the WKPP clutch, and are fast (George "rewind").

I'm going to get one, anyone else?

[Joe]

I may be in. I will know by the weekend. Chris W is interested also.

I was interested in a Magnum. I can order a shortbody later.

Did he give you any prices?

[jmya]

Joe,

Nothing final yet, but I think he is looking for $2800 or so. It seems that this will include extras, but I haven't finalized anything yet. So, probably getting close to a grand less than the new price, depending upon how many "extras" it includes. I will know on Feb 1.

Jase.

[Joe]

Joe,

Nothing final yet, but I think he is looking for $2800 or so. It seems that this will include extras, but I haven't finalized anything yet. So, probably getting close to a grand less than the new price, depending upon how many "extras" it includes. I will know on Feb 1.

Jase.


Cool. Marcs origional post on TDS listed 3 Magnums for $2800.00 including Genesis batteries and chargers.

[Steve B]

The great thing about scooters is that they can add a new dimension to your diving.

It doesn't matter if you're a newbie diving without a tech cert or the most experienced cave explorer, a scooter is a perfect tool for any dive.

I love the fact that UTD is offering programs like scubatics and bringing scooters into the mainstream tech programs.

I dive a Hollis scooter, simply because it's perfectly neutral and well....Jean can tell you that it destroys his for speed....I believe a 78 min scooter dive in Sherkston his was toast and mine had another :30 of burn time at 75% speed, but we don't wan to pick on poor "Brusso".

Matt
xoxo

You are aware that running your scooter till' the battery's die is bad for the battery's and shows a poor mindset in regards to dive planning.

[Jen]

If memory serves me correct...which I am sure it does since I have a good memory....Marc posted a choice of bodies...one scooter...choice of bodies. Nothing more ...and nothing less. re-read if you need to, but one scooter...not a whole like up. I still think he is asking too much for it though. He has not stated what it is...PVC or HDPE.

[Joe]

If memory serves me correct...which I am sure it does since I have a good memory....Marc posted a choice of bodies...one scooter...choice of bodies. Nothing more ...and nothing less. re-read if you need to, but one scooter...not a whole like up. I still think he is asking too much for it though. He has not stated what it is...PVC or HDPE.

His origional post was for three Magnums. Then he posted as you said that he has a Gavin forsale your choice 18,26 or magnum bodies. Today when Jason pm'd him he said he had 5 forsale.

I agree the price is a little steep. If we agree to buy 3 or 4 maybe we can get him down in price. That is of course once we know battery conditions and what backend they are.

[Jay Roy]

His origional post was for three Magnums. Then he posted as you said that he has a Gavin forsale your choice 18,26 or magnum bodies. Today when Jason pm'd him he said he had 5 forsale.

I agree the price is a little steep. If we agree to buy 3 or 4 maybe we can get him down in price. That is of course once we know battery conditions and what backend they are.

I volunteer to drive down to Florida to get them all..I've got nothing better to do these days lol

[Oren]

If it's a HDPE Magnum, I may be inetrested also.

[jmya]

When I sent him a message, he indicated that he would send photos and more details when he gets back from his trip. He doesn't want to deal with it until Feb 1.

It's hard to say if the price is steep or not because I don't yet know what it includes, and if they are HDPE or PVC, with or without batteries etc. I imagine there might, as always, be some haggle room.

This raises an interesting question. What would the new cost of a 26 Ah scooter be with AJ clutch and batteries? What extras might be required on top?

I am new to this, so besides the prices listed on George's site I have no real idea.

Jason.

[jmya]

One more thing - I will try to clarify what exactly he has for sale, since there seems to be some interest here.

[Joe]

If it's a HDPE Magnum, I may be inetrested also.

Pretty soon you will have as many scooters as sets of doubles...:D

[Joe]

One more thing - I will try to clarify what exactly he has for sale, since there seems to be some interest here.

Thanks Jason you seem to be the point man on this deal....

Once we find out what is available we can make an offer. If there is enough of us, and we take all Marc has, we should be able to get a good deal.

So far it looks like we have Jason,Joe,Oren,Jen and Chris W. Sounds like we have some bargaining power...:cool:

[jmya]

Joe,

Great! I've sent another message asking for clarification. We'll see what happens - I can just picture Jay driving back from FL with his van stuffed full of ex-WKPP goodies...

Jason.

[Joe]

Joe,

Great! I've sent another message asking for clarification. We'll see what happens - I can just picture Jay driving back from FL with his van stuffed full of ex-WKPP goodies...

Jason.

lol. Is he a good smuggler? :eek:

[jmya]

Personal items

[Chantelle]

Keep in mind, if you are buying a scooter from down there, that it might be a better idea to have them shipped without batteries (providing someone ... Jay... isn't driving down to get them). Batteries are freakin' heavy and will cost a fortune to ship all together. You'd be better off getting the batteries up here.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jay Roy]

I have an honest face..And don't think for a second if I drive down there to get them, I won't have gear to do some diving :)
So the scooters will be just adding to the pile on the way back :D

[Jay Roy]

Thanks Jason you seem to be the point man on this deal....



Makes sense, they're both Brits

[Joe]

I have an honest face..And don't think for a second if I drive down there to get them, I won't have gear to do some diving :)
So the scooters will be just adding to the pile on the way back :D

Deal....:D

[Joe]

Keep in mind, if you are buying a scooter from down there, that it might be a better idea to have them shipped without batteries (providing someone ... Jay... isn't driving down to get them). Batteries are freakin' heavy and will cost a fortune to ship all together. You'd be better off getting the batteries up here.

Just my 2 cents.

Good point Chantelle. Serge said he paid around $100.00. UV 26, charger and batteries. We will have to see what works best when the time comes.

[jmya]

I got a response from Marc:

He is selling 3 (there were more, but now it is 3). Currently they are configured as Magnums, but he has 26 and 18 amp tubes (1x 26 and 2 x 18).

The scooters don't come with batteries. All come with bulkheads and wiring. He will sell the Magnums with batteries for a little more if the person wants them.

Two of the scooters are older style Gavin's and one is new style.

All scooters come with Delrin WKPP clutch and large wheel in the handle to keep the trigger wire on track. Two of the scooters have the lower handle removed (not sanctioned for WKPP). All are proven to be solid

Regarding the price:

"Price is non-negotiable. I do not need to sell these scooters. It's a choice I am making for something else. I am still an active diver and will use them until they go, however long that takes, if ever :)"


Cheers,
Jase.

[JohnG]

I would say you guys look else where for a scooter. 2800 is way to much money for a gavin without batteries. I picked mine up for $2200 including batteries. Take into account mine was a short body. The magnum shouldnt be much over $2600 including batteries. Maybe $2800 for the one with the newer backend.

As for shipping I think there is a huge misconception on pricing. I paid $50 to have my euro body tube and battery setup shipped from FL to Niagara Falls, NY. when I had the scooter shipped it was $90 from washington to NY. that was the scooter, batteries, charger. When you are talking $200 to $400 in batteries its cheaper to buy them fro the guy sellign if they are still good.

[serge]

The trick for cheap shipping is using UPS ground *and* keeping the shipment US only.

A few of us are right on the border so picking shipments up at the UPS depot in the US really isn't a big deal.

If you had to ship to Canada then yes shipping the batteries would add a noticable amount of money.

The $100 fee for my shipping was from Florida and was a full UV-26 (Tube, Batteries, Back end) and another UV-18 body and batteries.

Serge.

[Jen]

New HDPE scooters, all rewound no batteries go for 3400 US on EE. I think for the older models he is asking too much. I hear of better deals out there too. If I am going to pay that much I would rather just buy new.

[Chantelle]

As for shipping I think there is a huge misconception on pricing. I paid $50 to have my euro body tube and battery setup shipped from FL to Niagara Falls, NY. when I had the scooter shipped it was $90 from washington to NY. that was the scooter, batteries, charger. When you are talking $200 to $400 in batteries its cheaper to buy them fro the guy sellign if they are still good.

John, I hear you.... but there could also be issues at customs, and cost of shipping across the border can be brutal. I do alot of shipping to and from the US, and it can be a royal pain, as well as surprisingly expensive to go over that little bitty border line. ;)

[JohnG]

John, I hear you.... but there could also be issues at customs, and cost of shipping across the border can be brutal. I do alot of shipping to and from the US, and it can be a royal pain, as well as surprisingly expensive to go over that little bitty border line. ;)




Yah I agree it can get pricey to get things over the border.
Stupid customs. I shipped mine to the ups customer center in Niagara Falls NY but for some it might not be that easy as brcause they are not as close to the border as I am.

[Oren]

I have an honest face..And don't think for a second if I drive down there to get them, I won't have gear to do some diving :)
So the scooters will be just adding to the pile on the way back :D
You know, I think you could easily twist my arm to go for a week of cave diving in Florida....Just saying.....

[Chris2257]

Agree with previous comments on asking price, asking way too much, seriously, economic conditions are getting worse by the day in the sunny US, that reality has not hit home there or here. I am going to wait it out. Conditions will get more interesting after the Obama Dead Cat Bounce.:cool:

[Jen]

Count me in too Oren!! Got an email about flights to Mexico...oh so tempting. Florida will do too since we were already invited.

[Warren_L]

I got my UV-26 drop shipped direct to Buffalo NY, including batteries for $100. I was lucky when I bought the scooter the C$ was worth more than the US$.

[Jay Roy]

New HDPE scooters, all rewound no batteries go for 3400 US on EE. I think for the older models he is asking too much. I hear of better deals out there too. If I am going to pay that much I would rather just buy new.


Don't buy from EE..buy from George himself..

[Jay Roy]

Count me in too Oren!! Got an email about flights to Mexico...oh so tempting. Florida will do too since we were already invited.

Invite to Florida?

[Oren]

Invite to Florida?
Yes, invite to Florida?

[Jay Roy]

Yes, invite to Florida?

From whom?

[Chantelle]

There was an invite from an NE-UE friend, for this coming weekend, but alas, we are diving in ice...lol...

That's the only one I know about...

[Oren]

From whom?
Dunno. That's why I'm asking.

[Jen]

There was an invite from an NE-UE friend, for this coming weekend, but alas, we are diving in ice...lol...

That's the only one I know about...

That was Chris (muffin) for Mexico...Florida invite didn't have a date, but Ralph and Mer want us to come down at some point.

[Chantelle]

The muffin man is leaving for Florida tomorrow! :p

Wish I was going too! :o

[Jen]

Oh it was Florida...Mexico was next I think....lol.

[Jay Roy]

Lucky bastard...
Just my luck..no job to go to...lotsa time to do stuff..no expendible income to do stuff tho...:(

[Chantelle]

Lucky bastard...
Just my luck..no job to go to...lotsa time to do stuff..no expendible income to do stuff tho...:(


I'm hearing that... lol... My jobs are sporadic at the moment... :(

[Joe]

Well that sucks. Guess we will have to look elsewhere. I agree with Chris. There will be more coming up forsale. :(

[jmya]

I finally broke down and bought a new one from George. A brand new 26Ah HDPE Gavin is on its way!

I figured that the amount saved buying used is not worth it. George charged me $3200 delivered (without batteries). At least I know where to send it, if I have trouble.

So, I guess now I need to get batteries, put together a burn tester, and get a vacuum pump right?

[Joe]

Congratulations. :cool:

Thats a better option than paying $2800.00 for the used ones.

I finally broke down and bought a new one from George. A brand new 26Ah HDPE Gavin is on its way!

I figured that the amount saved buying used is not worth it. George charged me $3200 delivered (without batteries). At least I know where to send it, if I have trouble.

So, I guess now I need to get batteries, put together a burn tester, and get a vacuum pump right?

[JohnG]

I finally broke down and bought a new one from George. A brand new 26Ah HDPE Gavin is on its way!

I figured that the amount saved buying used is not worth it. George charged me $3200 delivered (without batteries). At least I know where to send it, if I have trouble.

So, I guess now I need to get batteries, put together a burn tester, and get a vacuum pump right?


thats great congratulations. burn tester for sure, vacuum pump maybe, most of us don't have a pump and we have one burn tester. (thanks serge) Thats a great price.

[Jay Roy]

I finally broke down and bought a new one from George. A brand new 26Ah HDPE Gavin is on its way!

I figured that the amount saved buying used is not worth it. George charged me $3200 delivered (without batteries). At least I know where to send it, if I have trouble.

So, I guess now I need to get batteries, put together a burn tester, and get a vacuum pump right?

If you find out where to get a vacuum pump, let me know..I still need one..

[serge]

You can buy them from SS they work for the Gavin's to.

[jmya]

There is one at www.onlinesciencemall.com that looks like it would do the job. Product code APP110 - $31.95.

If you find out where to get a vacuum pump, let me know..I still need one..

[Joe]

Gavins I can see but why would you need to vacuum test the SS?? :D

You can buy them from SS they work for the Gavin's to.

[Kevin]

If you find out where to get a vacuum pump, let me know..I still need one..

Acklands-Grainger, NAPA/UAP, Snap-on tools, Mac Tools etc.....

They're made by a company called mityvac (http://www.mityvac.com/) (http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvp.asp) and are widely used in the auto industry. Get the plastic model MV6203 unless you are going to use it professionally. The fittings can be made from a barbed fitting mated to an o-ring sealed hydraulic fitting with the appropriate thread (can't remember the thread size off the top of my head). This stuff is very common in industrial hydraulic applications.

If you are stuck for the fitting, email me through my website contact and ill grab some next time I'm at the hydraulics shop getting hoses made.

[Steve B]

Gavins I can see but why would you need to vacuum test the SS?? :D

Because even if you vacuum test your SS and find a leak, your screwed because you need to send it to Rodney or order special parts. With the Gavin you can just fix it in 5 min. with parts from your local hardware store but having said that, my 3 Gavins have never had any problems and beleive me, they have been used alot. Even if I was offered a SS for free, I'd sell it. Plus, when you travel, no one has SS parts or battery packs for them.

[Chantelle]

...my 3 Gavins...

*cough* :rolleyes:

[Steve B]

At least I know where to send it, if I have trouble.



Give me a call if you have any issues what so ever, I'll be happy to help you out. I know them inside and out :)

[jmya]

Give me a call if you have any issues what so ever, I'll be happy to help you out. I know them inside and out :)

Thanks Steve. I might take you up on that.

[Joe]

I finally broke down and bought a new one from George. A brand new 26Ah HDPE Gavin is on its way!

Get it yet? Let us know when it arrives. I'm curious as to how long delivery will take.

[Jean f]

If you find out where to get a vacuum pump, let me know..I still need one..

Hey i have one in my tool box you can barrow it anytime . As for the fitting you can sorce that localy. I know liftline here in welland carries most of that stuff if could get the thread size i could pic some up since i need one also

[Jay Roy]

Get it yet? Let us know when it arrives. I'm curious as to how long delivery will take.


It took mine less then a week...
I think my payment went thru on a Thurs, and it arrived the following Wed..
It would probably be faster for Jason, as he lives in the States and there is no customs to deal with...

[Jen]

Get it yet? Let us know when it arrives. I'm curious as to how long delivery will take.

What happened to the SS idea you guys were talking about?

[Joe]

What happened to the SS idea you guys were talking about?

Right now I'm toying with two options. Time and of course money are the big factors. Plus every time I think I have the answer new info comes up and it's back to the drawing board.

This thread and the contributors are a big help. I think we need a DPV forum..:cool:

[Joe]

What payment option did you use Jay?

It took mine less then a week...
I think my payment went thru on a Thurs, and it arrived the following Wed..
It would probably be faster for Jason, as he lives in the States and there is no customs to deal with...

[Chantelle]

What payment option did you use Jay?

He's handing over his first born... :p

[JohnG]

Because even if you vacuum test your SS and find a leak, your screwed because you need to send it to Rodney or order special parts. With the Gavin you can just fix it in 5 min. with parts from your local hardware store but having said that, my 3 Gavins have never had any problems and beleive me, they have been used alot. Even if I was offered a SS for free, I'd sell it. Plus, when you travel, no one has SS parts or battery packs for them.

Hi Steve just wondering what special parts are on an ss that people would have to send it back to Rodney.

And want to clarify for mine and maybe everyones elses. The vacuum tester is to test the shaft seal primarily correct? and or motor compartment including shaft seal. And how often do you test it?

[Joe]

John is your PVC the same as the HDPE? By that I mean the location of the vacuum tester port.

Hi Steve just wondering what special parts are on an ss that people would have to send it back to Rodney.

And want to clarify for mine and maybe everyones elses. The vacuum tester is to test the shaft seal primarily correct? and or motor compartment including shaft seal. And how often do you test it?

[Kevin]

Depending on the model, shaft seal and the rear cone o-rings (on the HDPE's) The newer Gavins have a 1 piece back end so I dont believe there's an o-ring to be tested there any more, but i havent seen one yet. The vacuum tester looks for leaks from any of these seals as well as any failed welds in the motor compartment section. The tester I recommended in an earlier post also has a pressure fitting so if your machine will not hold vacuum you can pressureize the compartment through the same fitting, throw the back end in a tub of water and look for leaks. The cheaper vacuum testers from canadian tire and auto parts extra are vacuum only and dont have the pressure fitting.

The shaft seal on every gavin is made of 2 pieces of polished ceramic that trap a small film of water between them which is what forms the rotary seal. Dropping or even bumping your scooter on the rear cone can easily damage this ceramic causing a leak. This is true for the Gavins, SS, mako and any other scooter wsing this style of rear hub.

[JohnG]

John is your PVC the same as the HDPE? By that I mean the location of the vacuum tester port.

should be the same location. would have to have a look at a newer one

[JohnG]

Depending on the model, shaft seal and the rear cone o-rings (on the HDPE's) The newer Gavins have a 1 piece back end so I dont believe there's an o-ring to be tested there any more, but i havent seen one yet. The vacuum tester looks for leaks from any of these seals as well as any failed welds in the motor compartment section. The tester I recommended in an earlier post also has a pressure fitting so if your machine will not hold vacuum you can pressureize the compartment through the same fitting, throw the back end in a tub of water and look for leaks. The cheaper vacuum testers from canadian tire and auto parts extra are vacuum only and dont have the pressure fitting.

The shaft seal on every gavin is made of 2 pieces of polished ceramic that trap a small film of water between them which is what forms the rotary seal. Dropping or even bumping your scooter on the rear cone can easily damage this ceramic causing a leak. This is true for the Gavins, SS, mako and any other scooter wsing this style of rear hub.

Thanks Kevin. didn't know there was an oring under the cone. whats the general maintenance policy for changing the shaft seal and that oring. yearly every 2 years? when it go's

[Jay Roy]

What payment option did you use Jay?

Faxed him credit card info...

[Steve B]

Hi Steve just wondering what special parts are on an ss that people would have to send it back to Rodney.

And want to clarify for mine and maybe everyones elses. The vacuum tester is to test the shaft seal primarily correct? and or motor compartment including shaft seal. And how often do you test it?


Kevin already answered the vacuum testing part of your question. As to how often to test it, I would say anytime you are in doubt that you may have knocked the prop shaft assembly or after you blow the dust out of the engine compartement, after a long drive (trip), before a scooter dependant dive. I've never experience a leak myself (knock on wood).

They are tough machines that can handle a fair bit of abuse. If you take care of them, They will last you a very long time. My friend Leigh has an old PVC scooter that was used in the WKPP, it's over 10 years old and still going strong. I've seen divers toss their scooter around like a big old fire log and to my surprise, never had problems.

In regards to the differences between the SS and Gavins. The motors themselves are identical but every other component of the SS are special machined parts, even the tubes themselves, it does make them look nice. Components like the SS clutch is made of a plastic/teflon type material that will leave you dead in the water and needs to be replaced when it slips. The AJ/WKPP clutch's in the Gavins are made of aluminum and delrin which allows a diver to recover from a runaway scooter scenario.

Getting parts is not a big issue or factor in choosing between both but a small part of a big picture. You should be carrying spare parts anyway. It's a rather easy choice for me since the Gavin is the standard scooter of choice for GUE. They've been proven solid scooters.

Just on a side note, we are discussing scooters that are being used as tools and not as toys. If I was going to buy a scooter to do recreational dives that can be done swimming then I'd get a mini-G or X-scooter.

Hope this helps

Steve

[Rob Smith]

Anyone see this post?
http://www.ontariodiving.com/showthread.php?t=10384

Looks like a good deal, I don't know much about scooters just passing along the info.

http://www.ontariodiving.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2549&d=1233115684

[Jen]

Saw that last night. Good price considering that most SS's are up for sale for $2800 US.

I've always wanted a Gavin, and now having tried a little of both I do prefer the Gavin. I just like how easy it sets up. My other factors of choice are focused on the team and who I want to dive with. Most of the gang have Gavins...where I want to go have Gavins...so I just have to bring the back end, as I know all other parts will fit, and work. This discussion has already been brought up, but us girls always get brushed aside for comments so we tend not to add to many conversations you'll find.;)

I have posted looking so hopefully a few bites will come in from anyone with some scooters sitting on the fence.

[Rob Smith]

Saw that last night. Good price considering that most SS's are up for sale for $2800 US.

I've always wanted a Gavin, and now having tried a little of both I do prefer the Gavin. I just like how easy it sets up. My other factors of choice are focused on the team and who I want to dive with. Most of the gang have Gavins...where I want to go have Gavins...so I just have to bring the back end, as I know all other parts will fit, and work. This discussion has already been brought up, but us girls always get brushed aside for comments so we tend not to add to many conversations you'll find.;)

I have posted looking so hopefully a few bites will come in from anyone with some scooters sitting on the fence.

Well I pay attention to your posts...lol. ya the gavin seems to be the fav amongst people here and from reading up on them I can see why. I'll make my move next year spent enough all ready, The season has hardly started and I thought divorces were costly ...lol..

[Jay Roy]

Well I pay attention to your posts...lol. ya the gavin seems to be the fav amongst people here and from reading up on them I can see why. I'll make my move next year spent enough all ready, The season has hardly started and I thought divorces were costly ...lol..

Thats why in the yellow pages, you'll find that divorce information comes right after dive shops :D

[Rob Smith]

Thats why in the yellow pages, you'll find that divorce information comes right after dive shops :D

Excuse me while i wipe the coffee off my computer screen,, ROARRRR...

[Chantelle]

Thats why in the yellow pages, you'll find that divorce information comes right after dive shops :D


Oh d00d.... you outdid youself on that one... damn Coke.... :p

[jmya]

Get it yet? Let us know when it arrives. I'm curious as to how long delivery will take.

I didn't get it yet. George said it should ship this week. He is waiting for a body from the machine shop. Regular UPS from Florida usually takes three days to Rochester.

I'll post some pics when it arrives.

[Chantelle]

I didn't get it yet. George said it should ship this week. He is waiting for a body from the machine shop. Regular UPS from Florida usually takes three days to Rochester.

I'll post some pics when it arrives.

Have a name picked out for it yet? :D

(UPS ground from Florida to Ontario is usually 4 - 5 days Joe, unless you have an issue with customs)

[Joe]

Good stuff. That didn't take long at all. Looking forward to some pics. It's nice when someone gets new stuff.

I didn't get it yet. George said it should ship this week. He is waiting for a body from the machine shop. Regular UPS from Florida usually takes three days to Rochester.

I'll post some pics when it arrives.

[Joe]

LOL for security issues I will send someone else to pick it up....

Have a name picked out for it yet? :D

(UPS ground from Florida to Ontario is usually 4 - 5 days Joe, unless you have an issue with customs)

[JohnG]

Kevin already answered the vacuum testing part of your question. As to how often to test it, I would say anytime you are in doubt that you may have knocked the prop shaft assembly or after you blow the dust out of the engine compartement, after a long drive (trip), before a scooter dependant dive. I've never experience a leak myself (knock on wood).

They are tough machines that can handle a fair bit of abuse. If you take care of them, They will last you a very long time. My friend Leigh has an old PVC scooter that was used in the WKPP, it's over 10 years old and still going strong. I've seen divers toss their scooter around like a big old fire log and to my surprise, never had problems.

In regards to the differences between the SS and Gavins. The motors themselves are identical but every other component of the SS are special machined parts, even the tubes themselves, it does make them look nice. Components like the SS clutch is made of a plastic/teflon type material that will leave you dead in the water and needs to be replaced when it slips. The AJ/WKPP clutch's in the Gavins are made of aluminum and delrin which allows a diver to recover from a runaway scooter scenario.

Getting parts is not a big issue or factor in choosing between both but a small part of a big picture. You should be carrying spare parts anyway. It's a rather easy choice for me since the Gavin is the standard scooter of choice for GUE. They've been proven solid scooters.

Just on a side note, we are discussing scooters that are being used as tools and not as toys. If I was going to buy a scooter to do recreational dives that can be done swimming then I'd get a mini-G or X-scooter.

Hope this helps

Steve

Thanks Steve!

[JohnG]

Just thought I would post to clarify the differences between the 2 scooters or similarities really.

these 2 scooter share alot in common, from motors,relay boards, and blades, yoke screws, adjustments knobs etc can be swapped between. the reed switches are different. as the material the body is made out of and the handle. The handle is a preference thing. I like both. also the clutches are different, but both can be slipped. Read the following link about them.



http://www.silent-submersion.com/faq/Index.html

There isnt any special parts that go on the ss. The battery tray is totally different then a gavin
motor connectors are different.

They are not interchangeable between brands. but both a modular.

I guess my point is the spares kit you would have for either scooter could and would get either brand going again.

The biggest point is what your team dives. Both are great scooters, for the ease of swapping bodies between team mates and standardizing the team its a good idea to have the same one as everyone else on your team.

[JohnG]

on a side note about maintenace or repair. having one brand scooter really makes things easy. you get to know the ins and outs of that specific brand.

Things like the clutch will setup differently between the 2 brands, trigger cables, etc. You would have to learn both, where having the same brand scooter for the team means there is less to learn or remember and the more efficient you get with it.

as I am sure Steve and kevin will atest to it makes things so much easier and I am sure they can do most repairs and maintenance on the gavin with there eyes closed.

[Chantelle]

Just to add a little to Steve's experience.. as I've watched him do it.. He's had experience working with and fixing many different brands of scooters, so it's not just the Gavin that he's worked with. :)

[jmya]

My scooter arrived last week! I've taken a few photos of it.

It looks good except for one thing - The gap between the body and the tail cone is quite large in a few places (the tube is not round). It looks like the o-ring might extrude... I don't have a photo of this yet, I'll post one next week.

To those with Gavins, is this usual?

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=134

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=135

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=136

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=137

[Jay Roy]

Looks good Jase! Can`t wait to do some scooter dives with you this summer :)

As I mentioned to you the other day, I haven`t really examined my tube that closely for roundness....

Did you get that charger from George

[jmya]

Yeah, the charger is from George. He said it is "good".

I'm going to order batteries this week.

[Jay Roy]

Yeah, the charger is from George. He said it is "good".

I'm going to order batteries this week.

24 volt chargers are surprisingly difficult to find..I had to special order the two I have from a local battery supplier...

[Joe]

Looks good Jason. :cool:

[Chantelle]

Congrats, Jason! I'm sure Steve will have some input after work. :)

[Chantelle]

Just thought I would let you know that there is a short body Gavin for sale on TDS. Not sure if it's HDPE or PVC though...

http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36702

[Joe]

Thanks Chantelle. One of the locals down this way is working a deal. Hope it works out for him.



Just thought I would let you know that there is a short body Gavin for sale on TDS. Not sure if it's HDPE or PVC though...

http://thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36702

[JohnG]

well I am close to needing to vacuum test the backend of my scooter. So I need a little info now. What do you vacuum test the backend too ? I dont know what the unti of measure would be? Pressure?

[jmya]

John,

Pull a vacuum between 10 and 20 in Hg. This is a unit of pressure: 1 in Hg is approximately 0.5 psi.

Cheers,
Jason.

[jmya]

I'm going to buy some resistors tomorrow (from Milwaukee Resistor) for my burn tester. It looks like it will be about $40 for both resistors and the bracket. Add the wiring and the socket and the total cost is looking like $50.

If anyone else is interested, let me know and I can add it to my order.

[JohnG]

Thanks for the info.

[Steve B]

I've had the pleasure of seing some of the course material for the GUE DPV1
course. It is well done and has lots of information on DPV's as well as indepth gas and power management in regards to dive planning for non scooter dependant dives or overhead(caves). The DPV2 course will cover cave and overhead scooter diving. I am studying the REC program as well. It will be an FUN year for sure!

It's going to be trigger time soon!:) and by the looks of it, they'll be many scooters in the water this year.

Stay safe Ontario :)

Steve

[Jay Roy]

It's going to be trigger time soon!:) and by the looks of it, they'll be many scooters in the water this year.


Wooohoooo!!

[Chantelle]

Oh Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

*said in best Kool Aid guy voice* :p

[Jen]

Just picked up mine last week on Tuesday :D. I have to get the sticker off of it, and I just made the cradle and screwed in the blades. I seem to be missing a screw for the one handle, but that is easily fixed. Its not balanced yet, but maybe I can take it to the pool this week.....and see if I can figure that out. Chantelle....maybe in March sometime I can come up and play...or maybe even April.....just looking at my March calendar. If you guys could give it a once over that would be great! I'll be ordering a 26 body for it, and maybe the magnum next year. The 26 should be good for joining you guys on some river trips :). I don't have my own pics yet...been a little busy, but soon.

[Chantelle]

You got it, girl! :D

[Steve B]

Just picked up mine last week on Tuesday :D. I have to get the sticker off of it, and I just made the cradle and screwed in the blades. I seem to be missing a screw for the one handle, but that is easily fixed. Its not balanced yet, but maybe I can take it to the pool this week.....and see if I can figure that out. Chantelle....maybe in March sometime I can come up and play...or maybe even April.....just looking at my March calendar. If you guys could give it a once over that would be great! I'll be ordering a 26 body for it, and maybe the magnum next year. The 26 should be good for joining you guys on some river trips :). I don't have my own pics yet...been a little busy, but soon.

Just a suggestion Jen, I would get the standard 33/35 ah tube, not the 26ah simply because the 26 ah tube is a little shorter and requires the use of only one type of battery due to their lighter weight, the Hawker genesis 26ah batteries which are very costly but do last a long time on the other hand.
The standard tube will take 35 ah Powersonic that burn as long as the 26ah at half the cost. I think George is making the standard tube a few inches longer to accomodate the 35ah batteries. If anyone orders from George, I'd suggest making sure you get the right lenght standard tube as Powersonic no longer makes the 33ah batteries which are a little lighter than the 35ah batteries.

Steve B

[Jen]

Good to know....thanks Steve! I guess I thought that the 33/35 body was for the pvc backend...but if that is the standard length, then that sounds good to me.

[JohnG]

Just a suggestion Jen, I would get the standard 33/35 ah tube, not the 26ah simply because the 26 ah tube is a little shorter and requires the use of only one type of battery due to their lighter weight, the Hawker genesis 26ah batteries which are very costly but do last a long time on the other hand.
The standard tube will take 35 ah Powersonic that burn as long as the 26ah at half the cost. I think George is making the standard tube a few inches longer to accomodate the 35ah batteries. If anyone orders from George, I'd suggest making sure you get the right lenght standard tube as Powersonic no longer makes the 33ah batteries which are a little lighter than the 35ah batterie

Steve B

Thats exactly what I said too. The standard is the better way to go. You get more burn then a 26 ah body as well. The 26ah has a 90 min. minimum burntime while the standard(35ah) has a 120 min. minimum burntime. Because I have a pvc gavin George told me to buy the euro body which is 1" longer then a standard body. The nice part about it is it is adjustable like the magnum.

[Jay Roy]

Just picked up mine last week on Tuesday :D. I have to get the sticker off of it, and I just made the cradle and screwed in the blades. I seem to be missing a screw for the one handle, but that is easily fixed. Its not balanced yet, but maybe I can take it to the pool this week.....and see if I can figure that out. Chantelle....maybe in March sometime I can come up and play...or maybe even April.....just looking at my March calendar. If you guys could give it a once over that would be great! I'll be ordering a 26 body for it, and maybe the magnum next year. The 26 should be good for joining you guys on some river trips :). I don't have my own pics yet...been a little busy, but soon.


So what did you get Jen, an 18?

[Jen]

Yes....Richards (rJack) HDPE 18. Its 4 years old...and in pretty good shape. I was happy when I was able to go ahead and buy it. He sent two chargers, (3 and 4 amp both 24 watt), and two battery packs (both with a burn test of just over an hour). I think the pool might be the first stop for it. :)

[jmya]

Jen,

That sounds great! Since I'm such a high-roller, I went with the 26 Ah... My batteries came on Friday, and I have everything put together and charged up - looks good and the batteries seem to be in top condition (Hawker-Genesis). I got them from TNR technical in Florida ($150 each with free shipping).

The thing is a little bit too big (and heavy) to balance it in the tub (yes, I tried), so I'll be visiting Jay on the weekend. How is Humber looking Jay?

Cheers,
Jase.

[sharon]

The viz at Humber was about 20 to 30 feet. 35f. Windchill out of the water sucked bad:eek:

[R Fennema]

Man I really wish I had a scooter :(....one day...maybe my dad will give me his when its old and crappy..that'll be the day :cool: :D

[JohnG]

Man I really wish I had a scooter :(....one day...maybe my dad will give me his when its old and crappy..that'll be the day :cool: :D


Thats awesome Rick. When your dad has a second scooter you will have one to dive. So talk to your mom! or if I get a second one before your dad you can use one of mine.

either way you can play around with them this summer.

[R Fennema]

..Really?!?!? My dad never informed me of this, that would be awesome now I have something to really look up to :)..and haha I doubt my mom would let my dad buy another scooter, it was hard enough for him to get his first one :p that is unless she got something out of it. But that's my dad's job :). Yeah so I'm looking forward to playing around with it that'd be pretty cool.

[jmya]

All,

I have a quote from Milwaukee resistor for the burn tester. The assembled two 3 Ohm, 300W resistor and bracket assembly costs $100 if you buy one, but only $50 if you buy two, and $25 if you buy 5... Funny how they will sell two for the price of one!

Anyway, I was curious to see if anyone is interested in these. I will buy two for sure, but there seem to be a lot of scooters out there, so it might make sense to get five (maybe).

Cheers,
Jason.

[Jen]

I'll take one Jason! I'll figure out what to do with it later....:o

Thanks.

All,

I have a quote from Milwaukee resistor for the burn tester. The assembled two 3 Ohm, 300W resistor and bracket assembly costs $100 if you buy one, but only $50 if you buy two, and $25 if you buy 5... Funny how they will sell two for the price of one!

Anyway, I was curious to see if anyone is interested in these. I will buy two for sure, but there seem to be a lot of scooters out there, so it might make sense to get five (maybe).

Cheers,
Jason.

[jmya]

Jen,

They have some crazy looking stuff on the Milwaukee resistor web site - the sort of stuff you need out outfit your mad-scientist lab with...

Oh yeah, I went for a scooter with Jay on the WE. I've got to say that it's harder than it looks. Second dive was a bit better though....

When I got home, I found water in the motor compartment. George said he would send a new motor, so I've had some fun taking the thing apart. I'll post a pic.

Cheers,
Jase.

[jmya]

Here is the tail in pieces:

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=162

and the underside of the motor compartment lid

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=161

and the motor

http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/picture.php?albumid=15&pictureid=160

[JohnG]

WOW! 3rd pic. I really dont like the way the motor is secured in the hdpe version of the gavin(silver u bars). seems very sloppy, Is this the same for all the hdpe's?

[Jen]

Thanks Jason. Mine hasn't been in the water with me yet, but has with Richard...the "past" owner, and he had no issues. I will find out next weekend though. I did hook it all up and it sounds good.

When are you putting the order in for the resistors? I think Chantelle is going to see if they want some too.

[jmya]

John,

This is the way George has been doing it with the all the HDPE scooters. I'm not sure that it is bad - it certainly seems secure enough out of the water. It just pulls the cone face and barrell seals against the sealing surfaces of the tail. In the water, the water pressure alone is probably enough. I've never seen inside the motor compartment of the PVC. Are the brackets bolted both to the motor and to the tail?

Jen,

I will wait until mid-week before I place an order. Or if I get impatient, I'll probably just get five. Note that in order to complete the burn-tester you will still need some boat cable and the connector - although I might order some connectors in bulk also.

Cheers,
Jase.

[Fazekas]

I got an old farallon MKll Scooter that I am going to rebuild. Im going to give it a new paint job, electronics, batteries and maybe a new motor. Should be done soon. Can't wait!
http://www.scubaontario.ca/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=13&stc=1&d=1237068725

[JohnG]

here are a couple of pics of a pvc backend.

[JohnG]

here is a better pic.

[jmya]

John,

Thanks for posting the pic. It looks like the motor bolts directly to the back-end without using brackets. That does look more solid.

Cheers,
Jason.

[JohnG]

Exactly, It does bolt directly to the backend, quite a bit different then the hdpe.

[Steve B]

Brings back old memories to see that orange Farallon. They are still used in some of Europe's countries for Navy divers. To bad my old hardrive crashed, I had lots of pictures of those.

[Chantelle]

Lol... we even have a giant blow up Farallon scooter... :p

[Jay Roy]

Lol... we even have a giant blow up Farallon scooter... :p

Oh ya? Well I have a blow up.....nevermind.. :o

[Oren]

Oh ya? Well I have a blow up.....nevermind.. :o
Yes, but i it orange too?

[Chantelle]

Oh ya? Well I have a blow up.....nevermind.. :o

Are you gonna bring it tomorrow?? :D

[Jay Roy]

Are you gonna bring it tomorrow?? :D

Only if I get the spare room and not the couch..I need privacy :p

[Jen]

I have a blow up too....:p

[Chris C]

honestly, should i really comment on this........... cause jen i would really like to see that........ lol

[Chantelle]

honestly, should i really comment on this........... cause jen i would really like to see that........ lol


I've seen it.. :D

[Chantelle]

Only if I get the spare room and not the couch..I need privacy :p

It seems it's all yours now... :D